Ohio Blogger to White House for Housing Summit

At White House Meeting, Youngstown Ohio Housing Leader, Blogger, Homeowner  - Pushes Obama Administration for Solutions to Foreclosure and Housing Crisis

WASHINGTON, DC – On Thursday September 13th, Mark Roarty, an Ohio leader and nationally recognized blogger and housing advocate traveled to our nation’s capital to meet with top Obama Administration officials at the White House. Mr. Roarty discussed the immediacy and need for implementing bold new solutions to the housing and foreclosure crisis that has devastated our communities. cities & states.

Mark Roarty prior to White House housing summit

In break-out meetings with officials from HUD, DOJ, and the White House National Economic Council - Mark joined 150 other leaders, clergy, homeowners, and housing advocates (representing 26 states) and laid out recommendations to address the housing crisis and getting our economy back on solid ground. Roarty, along with other leaders, told the White House administration that it is far past time that they enact policy solutions such as:
- Principal reduction as a bold new plan needed to address foreclosures, fix the housing crisis, create jobs, and reset the economy. Specifically, the request included strong language to remove Ed DeMarco, interim director of FHFA, which oversees Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Ed DeMarco obstinately and ideologically opposes principal reduction, despite its proven benefits for homeowners and taxpayers.
- Publicly support the RMBS Task Force investigating big bank fraud, which the president announced in his State of the Union address back in January. The task force needs additional financial resources and staff to conduct real and effective investigations. The task force work will result in accountability for Wall Street crimes that crashed our economy.
- A nationwide Homeowner Bill of Rights that enacts strong standards for how banks must work with borrowers in foreclosure, including mediation and mandatory principal reduction when it would help the homeowner and investor.

Later in the day, Roarty joined up with other Ohio housing support groups and organizational leaders to visit Ohio Senators Sherrod Brown and Rob Portman. In the Senators' Washington D.C. offices they met with key staff to share ideas and ask for support from the Ohio Senators on the recently introduced Menendez/Boxer Bill (S. 3522). The bill would allow homeowners trapped in high-interest loans, guaranteed by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, to refinance into lower interest loans and also eliminate up-front fees along with appraisal and loan closing costs.

Roarty, was invited to the meeting because of  his affiliation with NPA and The New Bottom Line along with his nationally recognized blog Ohio FRAUDclosure. In Ohio, he is a leader and homeowner advocate with the Mahoning Valley Organizing Collaborative (MVOC)
Tracy Van-Slyke (Director of The New Bottom Line) & Mark Roarty on front steps of White House prior to meeting.

Mark Roarty is also one of three nationwide home-owner spokespersons for The New Bottom Line coalition's Home Is Where The Vote Is campaign. The campaign, with the goal of making President Obama and Governor Romney address the foreclosure and housing crisis, features Roarty in a two-minute video explaining the realities faced by thousands of Ohio homeowners. Some of the deeply felt pain, of being in foreclosure, is shared by Roarty in the video. Recently, after a 4 1/2 year legal battle, a decision was handed down by an Ohio Appellate Court reversing the illegal foreclosure on his home.



More than 400,000 OHIO homeowners have been foreclosed on since 2007, with the state’s eight urban cores being hit hardest. The spike in foreclosures has led to massive neighborhood blight, vacant properties and community disinvestment. Those maintaining their homes have seen a huge decline in value, leaving 529,834 Ohio homeowners underwater on their mortgages. That figure is roughly one quarter of all homeowners in the state. Nationally, there are almost 16 million underwater homes, totaling a loss of $1.2 trillion in home equity. Resetting those mortgages to fair market value would save the average underwater homeowner $543 per month, pumping $104 billion into the national economy every year. This would also allow financial capacity to create 1.5 million jobs nationally.

Related: New Jersey - Homeowners Underwater and abandoning ship.

The foreclosure crisis in Ohio is rooted in illegal activity by lenders and Wall Street and inadequate rules and enforcement. The misconduct included predatory sub-prime lending, targeting of senior citizens, veterans, and communities of color, and bundling and pawning off flawed mortgages, avoiding accountability. Those forces combined with record long-term unemployment to bring our economy to the brink of collapse, and continue to jeopardize our economic recovery.

"The Mahoning Valley (Youngstown), like many areas across the country, need help to stop the on-going and rampant bank and servicing fraud in foreclosure," Roarty said. "Local and state leaders and organizations have done everything possible to deal with the result of illegal and improper foreclosures (vacant homes & blighted neighborhoods) by helping secure funds for demolition. Now we need to address the cause. We need action, and we need it now. My home, our communities, and our economic future is depending on it."

Speaking directly to HUD Secretary Shaun Donovan at the end of the meeting, Roarty, in front of the entire forum, asked that the administration officials in attendance pass along the importance of these issues  - directly to the President.

Although he was impressed that the administration agreed to host the forum, he feels that more immediate action is needed. "The President needs to address this in his campaign," Roarty said after the meeting. "It’s great that administration officials heard our concerns and critique, but this requires more than lip service."
Information for Ohio Homeowners at Home is Where the Vote is (HERE)

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Musical Gnosis: A Love Supreme/Music For Airports


Musical Intelligence....information and directives in and out through street singers.


Musical broadcasts, jukeboxes and records, High School bands, whistling boys, cabaret performers, singing waiters, transistor radios.


Red sails on the sunset way out on the sea.



- from  the Western Land by William S..Burroughs read by him in the song Ineffect from the album Seven Souls produced by Bill Laswell.



Anyone who has worked with music, creating it, listening to it or both, knows  it communicate a great deal of information.  So much so that a particular piece may still yield new insights after many listens.  Music can also act like a guide and suggest  evolutionary directives if one is open to it.  It can serve as a vehicle or medium for some sort of contact with Higher Intelligence. Led Zeppelin emphasizes this idea in the song Houses of the Holy: "Let the music be your master, can you hear the master's call?"  



The Burroughs quote implies that Musical Intelligence radiates abundantly.  My experience concurs.  We can even say that all good music, all genuine musical expression has an Intelligence behind it that can potentially communicate useful information when unlocked and accessed.  Music can be looked at as an artifact to be psychometrized.  Psychometry is the psychic ability to unlock information stored in artifacts.  I maintain that the musical form makes a very good container for storing alchemical, magical,  and evolutionary information.  Music communicates mood which means that it also communicates states of consciousness.  Gnosis responds to particular moods or emotional postures.  Getting into the right mood seems to unlock the gnosis or Intelligence transmitted musically.



Related to music's esoteric function of communicating mood, I suggest, based literally on thousands of experiments, that the mood of the space the music gets recorded, mixed or mastered in ends up in the final product.  In my experience, states of consciousness can and do get recorded and transmitted.  This doesn't require belief, it can be determined for oneself.  I'll give a couple of suggestions for experiments to find out for oneself a little later. 



I began to entertain the notion that the mood of a space can recorded onto a reproducible medium from cleaning up and mastering hundreds of talk tapes in E. J. Gold's archive recordings which date from the '60's.  Sometimes the intense mood given off had a much stronger effect than the words being said.  I've heard Robert Anton Wilson talk tapes that also have this quality.  The atmosphere around these talks communicates something as well.



The Beatles, at the height of their creativity, invoked powerful energies into their music.  For instance, the song they wrote for the first ever world-wide satellite broadcast was All You Need Is Love.  This deceptively simple, but  encompassing Zen koan prayer states a basic truth.  Visionary design science advocate Buckminster Fuller elaborated this truth in a different way when he said that we have everything we need to make the world work, the resources, technology, and intelligence.  We just need to take the emphasis away from the technological development of weaponry and direct toward what he called "livingry."  Livingry is defined by Fuller as that which supports Life.  The world  doesn't actually need war, violence and  the disadvantaging of one part of humanity to advantage another.  It may have seemed necessary at one time, but no longer rings true according to Fuller and other Comprehensivists.  It's a new day. 



We also see evidence of The Beatles magick in the Philip K. Dick gnostic reception discussed earlier.  PKD was listening to Strawberry Fields Forever when he got information beamed into him that saved his son'slife,  I found out more about this incident from the book What If Our World Is Their Heaven?  The Final Conversations of Philip K. Dick.  The information that saved the life of his son was communicated through the music.




... first there was this flash of light, hit me right in the face and blinded me.  It did.  And it came out and all I could see was this pink and I was listening to this Beatles tune on the stereo and all of a sudden the words rearranged themselves.  And there was something outside me.  But what I heard was The Beatles' words rearranged.  It told me that my little boy had this, you know, undiagnosed birth defect, and it told me what the birth defect was.  And when I told Tess and I said you must take him to the doctor  immediately, it's urgent, she went right to the hospital to the doctor and it was true.  He did have that defect and he scheduled surgery for as soon as possible.



Something about Strawberry Fields Forever allowed it to get used as a vehicle for gnostic transmission.



Perhaps if we know something about the artist's intention behind a piece we can more easily access the headspace they were in when they composed and performed it.  Maybe that can aid to unlock the Musical Intelligence contained within?  Here's a couple of classic examples for experimentation:



John Coltrane's liner notes for A Love Supreme clearly state his intention behind the piece.  Here's an excerpt.  I would call it devotional or Bhakti yoga:








I will do all I can to be worthy of Thee O Lord.

It all has to do with it.

Thank you God.

Peace.

There is none other.

God is. It is so beautiful.

Thank you God. God is all.

Help us to resolve our fears and weaknesses.

Thank you God.

In You all things are possible.

We know. God made us so.

Keep your eye on God.

God is. He always was. He always will be.

No matter what...it is God.

He is gracious and merciful.

It is most important that I know Thee.

Words, sounds, speech, men, memory, thoughts,

fears and emotions – time – all related ...

all made from one ... all made in one.

Blessed be His name.

Thought waves – heat waves-all vibrations –

all paths lead to God. Thank you God. 








The complete liner notes are HERE.



Now find a copy of A Love Supreme and listen to it trying to get into 'Trane's headspace.  This experiment doesn't require any belief. Atheists and agnostics ( of which I am one) should have no problem with this.   God can be whatever you want it to be including nothing at all.



Here's the You Tube version if you don't have a better fidelity copy. It will still work:











And/or try this out: Brian Eno stated his intention behind composing the initial Ambient Music release, Music for Airports  was to write for someone who might be concerned and worried about or who might actually die in a plane crash.  It was music designed for those particular transit spaces called airports and Eno did use it to communicate something about fear of death.  With this in mind, listen to Music for Airports and see what, if any, of his communication comes through.










The Big Lie - Foreclosure issues resolved


The current administration is revisiting the so called "Foreclosure Settlement"

* First....consider the settlement that the Obama Administration is now beginning to trumpet as one of its greatest achievements. This is the joint forty-nine state & federal settlement wherein the banks claim to eventually settle...by paying a  paltry $25 billion. (the 'headline number' provided by the White House) Not only is this a completely "disingenuous" claim, but it was systematically and totally dismantled by Yves Smith of Naked Capitalism (Top ranked financial blog).

In reality, and with maybe... a mere $5 billion (moved around on their books), the five criminal banks were released from ALL STATE lawsuits stemming from the massive and systemic fraud that went into the origination and servicing of housing loans throughout the bubble and into the crash. For this paltry sum, the banks were released from all liability stemming from a decade-long-run of illicit activities that fleeced millions of customers and inflated a bubble that eventually destroyed the economy of the United States and much of the world. Now, you might ask, to what did the five large banks, party to the settlement (Bank of America, Wells-Fargo, Morgan Stanley, Citibank, and Ally Bank) agree to do in exchange for this wonderful bounty of sweeping immunity? They committed themselves, after much dodging and wrangling, to follow the law of the land! (Are you serious ! Really!) Specifically, they promised to stop engaging in fraudulent foreclosure practices. That is harsh! (sarcasm!)

Consider the massive evidence of FRAUD -- besides the reams of paper and court documents, this includes the many witnesses who have spoken to the media, written testimonials or books, already testified in court on related matters, etc. Then, consider even this partial list of crimes to be investigated. Accounting fraud screams out for action under Sarbanes-Oxley; loan origination fraud (including, by 2006, almost universal appraisal fraud); the robo-signing, forgeries, and post-dating of documents that for years were routinely submitted to courts during legal proceedings; the myriad of tax avoidance scams and lost paperwork that were a core feature of the mortgage electronic registration systems; the deliberate misrepresentation in the "Warrants and Reps" attached to the packaging and sale of mortgage-backed securities and derivatives thereof; and on and on it goes. (I should add that, coincidentally, soon after this settlement was signed, several states inexplicably dropped or settled what were very promising criminal investigations.)

But, let us be fair, the Administration got more than that (exaggeration !) Contingent on their meeting a number of criteria, families found to have lost their home through fraudulent actions taken by one of these five gigantic loan servicers were to be eligible to receive $1,500 to $2,000! Now, I cannot speak for you. But if, as a consequence of fraud or negligence on the part of a major bank, I lost my home and as a consequence also lost my credit rating, neighborhood, dignity, and the ability of any children I might have to remain in the schools and with the teachers with whom they were familiar, I would be very angry. If, years later, I got a check for $2,000, such a paltry payment for all that I had lost would strike me as only one more of a long line of humiliations. Some real personal homeowner humiliations are shared below



Apparently, Obama's campaign managers believe that reminding voters listeners of this most awful settlement, one that so clearly defines and encapsulates everything that is so wrong about the Administration's approach to disciplining fraudulent financial institutions, is their best strategy for convincing voters that things would be so much worse under a Romney Administration

 * Excerpts above ....come from a brilliant HuffingtonPost Blog by Robert Prasch titled:

The Obama Administration, the 49 State Mortgage Settlement, and the Spin: A Study in Shamelessness (HERE)


Related post:  Home is Where the Vote Is  (HERE)

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Home is Where the Vote Is

OHIO is being called the most important swing state for the 2012 election!



NEWSFLASH:
President Obama - you - and Governor Romney will be competing for votes of millions of homeowners. As presidential candidates, you need to address ALL the housing issues (Underwater Mortgages, Fraudclosure, Fannie & Freddie holdings) in big swing states such as Ohio, Colorado, Nevada and Florida. Current estimates show there are between 12 - 16 million underwater homeowners, in addition to millions of fraudulent foreclosures that are NOT being counted in these totals.

OHIO:
The housing crisis has hit OHIO harder....than but a handful of states. As a result, many OHIO VOTERS are underwater on their mortgages (mortgage debt is greater than value of home) Recent housing market data shows more than a half a million (529,834) OHIO mortgages are underwater. What does that mean?

1 Million (1,000,258) Ohio eligible voters are underwater
12% of the eligible voters - underwater
528,834 home mortgages - underwater

To put these numbers in perspective, the number of Underwater Voters in Ohio (1,000,258) is OVER one third of the total votes cast for the winning presidential candidate in 2008. **

MESSAGE: 

OHIO VOTERS: please join the New Bottom Line Campaign:


It's not just Ohio's underwater homeowners - it's millions of homeowners being impacted

Washington, DC: - Today (August 22nd) - a national campaign will put the agenda of 16 million underwater homeowners squarely on the national political agenda. ‘Home is Where the Vote Is’ will engage in a 8 state campaign to influence the presidential election with on-the-ground actions led by underwater homeowners along the travel routes of both candidates. The campaign will give a voice to the underwater voter -- a key voting bloc - this election cycle. Swing states included in the campaign are some of the hardest hit by the foreclosure crisis, including OH, CO, NV, FL, IA, MI.

'Home is Where the Vote Is' is organized by The New Bottom Line, a growing movement of community organizations, congregations, and individuals working together to challenge big bank interests and fight for principal reduction for underwater homeowners. Allies in highlighting and mobilizing underwater voters this season include Rebuild the Dream, Right to the City, Home Defenders League, Ohio FRAUDclosure and the hundreds of thousands of underwater homeowner and voting families.

READ Huffingtonpost Business Blog:
Underwater Voters Take Aim at Obama and Romney over Housing

Neither President Obama nor Governor Romney has proposed the bold solutions needed to address the housing crisis at the root of the American economy’s troubles. Resetting mortgages to fair market value is essential to keeping families in their homes and the recovery of the US economy and job market. Economists from both sides of the political spectrum support it.

'Home is Where the Vote Is' will elevate the real stories and power of underwater voters to the level that the campaigns will be forced to respond. Nationally, there are 16 million underwater homes, worth $2.8 trillion, that are $1.2 trillion underwater.  Resetting those mortgages to fair market value would save the average underwater homeowner $543 per month, pumping $104 billion into the national economy every year. This would create 1.5 million jobs nationally

The candidate that fails to seriously address Wall Street , underwater homeowners, and the resulting housing crisis WILL BE the candidate that loses.



More Americans Speak Out About Underwater Housing - (OH, NV, CO) 

Our neighborhoods are being destroyed by foreclosed homes. It's our communities that are deprived of hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue because too many homeowners have to unfairly pay the big banks instead of investing in local businesses. Entire communities are being blighted across our state and nation because of the failed policies and the on-going fraudulent practices of the big banks.

MORE: ...Huffington Post Business Blog - by Tracy Van Slyke

Thousands of Ohio homeowners foreclosed on improperly

Newspaper (Cleveland Plain Dealer) coverage: on our previously reported story:

Thousands of Ohio homeowners were foreclosed on improperly, lawsuit claims


Ohio Bombshell: Former AG takes on LPS, Mills & Servicers

CLASS ACTION COMPLAINT filed in Cuyahoga County (Cleveland)
MARC DANN (Former OHIO AG) of  DANN, DOBERDRUK & WELLEN, LLC

             
Explosive Legal News: 
Cuyahoga County:  Court of Common Pleas
Linda Clark, Doehner, Lowery, Whiteman, Laura YEAGER
Plaintiffs
Urgent Update: CALL to ACTION for plaintiff being evicted (HERE)
VS.
Lender Processing Services (LPS) 
LPS Default Solutions 
DOCX LLC  (DocX)
Fidelity National Information Services (FNIS)
American Home Mortgage Bank Servicing (AHMSI)
LERNER, SAMPSON & ROTHFUS (LSR)
MANLEY, DEAS KOCHALSKI LLC (MDK)
REIMER, ARNOVITZ, CHERNEK& JEFFREY CO LPA
Defendants 

The complaint clearly spells out the criminal behaviour of the co-conspiring entities which acted in concert while participating and perpetrating enormous FRAUD in OHIO's foreclosures.  Our former Attorney General along with some powerful legal allies have filed this action on behalf of a proposed class consisting of:

ALL OHIO CITIZENS who were (a) defendants in judicial foreclosure actions {with} first lien mortgages on their homes that were purportedly held by securitization trusts, and that were knowingly initiated and prosecuted by Defendants on behalf of parties that lacked legal standing to do so, and (b) who were damaged by Defendants’ abusive foreclosure practices, including: (i) preparing, executing, and notarizing fraudulent court documents and assignments of mortgages and other property records that were used to initiate and prosecute such foreclosures, and (ii) imposing inflated, unfair, unreasonable and/or fabricated fees for “default management services” (the “Class”)
Three (3) categories of defendants {Servicers, Foreclosure document venders, and Foreclosure Mills) acted in concert and conspired in furtherance of the fraudulent scheme to generate enormous profits from default servicing fees by knowingly initiating foreclosure actions on behalf of entities that lacked legal standing to bring such actions.

92 page Class Action Complaint: DOWNLOAD HERE
Sadly, in what appeared to be an instant counter action and outrageous and unconscionable retaliatory attack - a 10-day eviction notice was posted on Plaintiff Michael and Laura YEAGER's home - the day after the complaint was filed! It has since been followed up with another! The PREDATOR DRONE foreclosure mill law firm (REIMER, ARNOVITZ, CHERNEK& JEFFREY CO LPA ) apparently tasked co-defendant paper filing drones' (Manley Deas Kocholski) to execute the writ-of-possession while the morally corrupt  bank sponsored attorney - Kristi Pallen* - (kpallen@reimerlaw.com) (330-405-1199) continues the fight to legally block the Yeager's request for a  Stay (of an eviction). Reimer (Pallen) has also refused a supersedeas property bond offer (collateral), or to accept a previously agreed upon short sale. 
*Kristi Pallen - Previous irresponsible, bank-sponsored, failed action ADMONISHED:
READ HERE on admonished behaviour: U.S. Bank National Association v. Lenor
*Plaintiff’s counsel, Attorney Kristi Brown, also identified as Attorney Kristi Pallen, filed this matter on behalf of bogus Plaintiff, U.S. Bank National Association.
The Court finds Plaintiff’s counsel (Kristi Brown kna Kristi Pallen) did not follow Local Rule 4.2. filing procedures for service by Certified Mail....and...
The Court strikes all entries pertaining to service and further, the Court finds Plaintiff’s counsel failed to prosecute this matter...and.. Therefore, it is ORDERED this case is dismissed, without prejudice, .....and for Want of Prosecution. It is further ORDERED this case is dismissed... for failure to perfect service within 120 days, according to Fed.R.Civ.P 4.
Plaintiff’s counsel is admonished !!!!! as to Service by Certified Mail

OHIO to Palm Beach FL - Vote Lisa Epstein - Tues AUG 14th

It is so rare to meet a person that can impact our society and affect change. It is even more rare ...to have that person... want to share their knowledge as a public servant. Today Palm Beach County Florida residents (VOTERS) can honor such a person - vote today for
LISA EPSTEIN - CLERK of COURTS
Palm Beach County Florida
LISA EPSTEIN - CLERK of COURTS
Number one financial Blogger: YVES SMITH of Naked Capitalism says:
Get Everyone You Know in Palm Beach County to Vote for Lisa Epstein for Clerk of the Court...Tuesday”

Lisa Epstein, a foreclosure fighter (who gained national recognition for her research and discovery) attempts to pull off an upset Tuesday (August 14th) in the race for Clerk of Court in Palm Beach County. This position is the equivalent of a "register of deeds" (The official who records mortgage transfer documents & title) in counties across the country.

Lisa Epstein is running in the Democratic primary against a longtime incumbent, who has done little of note in highlighting the fraudulent documents rolling into her office. Palm Beach County Florida is one of the key areas {and states} for the foreclosure crisis.

With no Republican running....today's primary race WILL decide the next Clerk of Court.

The Palm Beach election is drawing national attention. Neil Barofsky, the former special inspector general for the bailout funds {TARP}, has endorsed LISA. Number one financial Blogger Yves Smith of Naked Capitalism threw her support behind Epstein in a postGet Everyone You Know in Palm Beach County to Vote for Lisa Epstein for Clerk of the Court Tuesday.”

ALL voters in Palm Beach County can participate in the election

Read more from David Dayen: Lisa Epstein Challenging incumbent

Read: BLOOMBERG BUSINESS WEEK: on Lisa Epstein run for office (HERE)

Read: Lisa Epstein - Homeowner Hero wants to help - again (HERE)

View: Lisa Epstein - National Television Interview:  (Video Here)

OHIO: Home is Where the Vote Is

OHIO is being called the most important swing state for the 2012 election!

NEWSFLASH:
President Obama - you - and Governor Romney will be competing for votes of millions of homeowners.  But, presidential candidates need to address ALL the housing issues (Fraudclosure, Fannie & Freddie holdings, Underwater Mortgages) in big swing states such as Ohio, Florida, Colorado and Nevada. Current estimates show there are between 12 - 16 million underwater homeowners, in addition to fraudulent foreclosures NOT counted in that total. That is potentially some 15 - 20 million voters who are watching how you - as President - and Governor Romney will address this issue. But that's just the tip of the iceberg...
Mansfield Ohio 8-1-12 photo by Luke Sharrett The New York Times
It's not just the millions of homeowners impacted - it's all of us. It's our neighborhoods that are destroyed by foreclosed homes. It's our communities that are deprived of hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue because too many homeowners have to unfairly pay the big banks instead of investing in local businesses. Entire communities are being blighted across our state and nation because of the failed policies and the on-going fraudulent practices of the big banks.

MESSAGE:  The candidate that fails to seriously address Wall Street accountability, foreclosures, underwater homeowners and the resulting housing crisis WILL BE the candidate that loses ...HuffingtonPost Business Blog - by Tracy Van Slyke:

President Obama: Home Is Where the Vote Is
.....Just over four years ago, Wall Street and big banks crashed the economy, causing home values to tank. Now over 15 million homeowners are underwater--drowning in debt to banks they shouldn't owe. This means that the money they have worked hard and saved for to buy their home to invest in their future, support their retirement, their kids' college funds, and any safety net is gone.

And this is the crux of a major election issue. The Washington Post and National Public Radio have already started to report that Presidential candidates need to address housing in swing states.....

..... start publicly addressing how to hold Wall Street accountable (everyone but Wall Street loves that!) and really, truly, boldly, support millions of homeowners and everyday people whose lives have been systematically ruined by the big banks.

Read more of Tracy's blog (LINK HERE)

In Palm Beach County Florida....your vote ...can make a difference ....(HERE) & (HERE)